Gender wars part 2... instigated by Michelle Atagana
6.11.06
What it is about women that allows them the ability to slate all men in one fell swoop? I don't get it. If a man so much as looks at a women with any sort of disdain he is charged with being a patriarchal chauvinist and shunned from society (bet he wont get laid for ages... what a typically male thing to say!!).
Michelle posted on the issue to begin with on her post I believe in the man... I think. "The male species cannot be as shallow and as one minded as they present themselves, can they?" Imagine if a man blogged that women can't be as slutty and stupid as they present themselves, and Why aren't more women cooking and cleaning for their husbands like back in the good old days?
I would be burnt at the stake, not so? So then what on Earth gives any women the right to make swooping statements like one of the comments to Michelle's post: Jen said, "Sorry to burst you bubble but that is all there is to men!," tsk tsk tsk Jen, there's that stupidity I was just speaking of. Maybe all women are as moronically ignorant as Jen presents herself. No. That's not right, but that is the luxury that women are allowed, to be able to say what they want about men because of historic imbalances.
Well let me be the first to say that history is over. Much like the many black South Africans who never experienced apartheid charge the white man for their suffering. What suffering? You didn't live through apartheid, you have affirmative action, you are not suffering. In the same breathe, women who are able to blog in front of their own personal laptops at University have no room to complain about the ignorance of man, because in so doing, you are expressing your own ignorance.
Some men are rapists, some men beat their wives, some men are shallow and some men are not. Some women spend thousands upon thousands of Rands every year on make up so that they look better and some women don't. Are you telling me that every women who buys make up is shallow. No. That's just not true. Hence, not all men who watch rugby, drink beer and play sports are shallow. Just because you, as a women, don't grasp the male love and understanding for and of sports, don't knock it. We don't criticize your shoe collection, we love it cause it's who you are.
Let bygons be bygons, let men be men and women be women and everyone be human. Simple.
Michelle posted on the issue to begin with on her post I believe in the man... I think. "The male species cannot be as shallow and as one minded as they present themselves, can they?" Imagine if a man blogged that women can't be as slutty and stupid as they present themselves, and Why aren't more women cooking and cleaning for their husbands like back in the good old days?
I would be burnt at the stake, not so? So then what on Earth gives any women the right to make swooping statements like one of the comments to Michelle's post: Jen said, "Sorry to burst you bubble but that is all there is to men!," tsk tsk tsk Jen, there's that stupidity I was just speaking of. Maybe all women are as moronically ignorant as Jen presents herself. No. That's not right, but that is the luxury that women are allowed, to be able to say what they want about men because of historic imbalances.
Well let me be the first to say that history is over. Much like the many black South Africans who never experienced apartheid charge the white man for their suffering. What suffering? You didn't live through apartheid, you have affirmative action, you are not suffering. In the same breathe, women who are able to blog in front of their own personal laptops at University have no room to complain about the ignorance of man, because in so doing, you are expressing your own ignorance.
Some men are rapists, some men beat their wives, some men are shallow and some men are not. Some women spend thousands upon thousands of Rands every year on make up so that they look better and some women don't. Are you telling me that every women who buys make up is shallow. No. That's just not true. Hence, not all men who watch rugby, drink beer and play sports are shallow. Just because you, as a women, don't grasp the male love and understanding for and of sports, don't knock it. We don't criticize your shoe collection, we love it cause it's who you are.
Let bygons be bygons, let men be men and women be women and everyone be human. Simple.
Labels: Beer, chauvinism, Females, Gender Wars, Men, Patriarchy, Rugby, Women, Women Abuse
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Okay... tell me Nic, when you see a realy hot girl, what do you think of? her personality or what a nice ass she has.
Anonymous, 6:17 PM
I'll answer that with a question: When you see a really hot guy what do you think about? Further more, are you trying to tell me that women only wear make up because they want to look good for guys?? Shallow per chance?
Oh please not the make up card... Guys will go for the skinny girl, prom queen... They care nothing about the chic in the chess club or the mathlete.
jen, you shouldn't even speak... you watch basketball to objectify men. I think the real one-minded creatures here... are quite evident!
So not true, So so so not true, they might look, they might think, but at the end of the day, the genetic facts are that most guys seek women who they think can bare their children.
You brought up hot "chicks" as you called them, Hot "chicks" sometimes wear makeup so i elaborated on that.
I am also off to dinner, so will check back in later!!
You brought up hot "chicks" as you called them, Hot "chicks" sometimes wear makeup so i elaborated on that.
I am also off to dinner, so will check back in later!!
plus.. you are the ulitmate have it all campus queen (skinny and all). SO what's you beef!
OOOOh.... I was with Mich a few days ago and she was talking about this. Something about starting a male magazine that catered for the non FHM crowd. There is a balance to men as I am sure is to women. good on you mich for starting it... good on you nic for picking it.
brad you shouldn't even speak... hello!!! relationship with Mich, how did it end? more to the point why?
Oh come on jen... that is uncalled for! brad and I are not the issue here. also our business not yours. I agree with nic, there is a balance to everything. One gender is not perfect. I splurge on the superficial things every now and again (today, I got a gracie cat bag, coz it was hot) that does not make me any less of a person.
I agree with Michelle...dont know who dated who..and I dont care really! hehehe, what a debate!
Thank you peter
I can't win.. I'm out numbered...
Jen, maybe you cant win cause your wrong, not caus your outnumbered??
k nico... umm.. do i want to get involved in this?? this all screams "generalisation"!! So if its all a massive generalisation then there is no way at all that you can branch off into specifics with any form of success or resolution!! Personally- i dont beleive all men are shallow etc... but some are- and not all women are consumed with materialism etc... but a large number are.. so no "side" wins here as far as i can see! I agree with Nic, let everyone be human! and South Africans should GET OVER APARTHEID!!The country would a better place for it!
Ja, look, i think that everyone needs to understand that my post is a response post. So I wrote it with specific intention to be argumentative and topical. It is a generalisation that will never be able to be resolved by saying one side is better or worse or more or less shallow than the other.
I think this Michelle, is a traitor to the sisterhood!
Ann, I think that the "sisterhood" concept went out in the early 90's
Without having read the comments posted by everyone else, I have placed myself at the risk of repeating comments...Nonetheless, I shall ramble...(because that's what women do?).
Nic, I have to agree- it's not all men who are shallow, sex-obsessed, beer guzzling, sports fanatics. But, in the way that stereotypes and generalisations are formed, there are a few (I have met some personally, unfortunately) and they have given males a bit of a rep. Added to this is the fact that men celebrate each other's maleness- so you may give your buddy a pat on the back ("you old dog, you!") when he has scored three girls in one night, and tells you about it in between beer burps. Women are wired a little differently, so we see that as encouraging behaviour that objectifies and undermines us. And it also scares the crap out of us- we hope to never be the subject of these discussions (at least, that is true for self-respecting women).
I will admit, there are some truly wonderful men out there- intelligent, funny, with integrity and style (God bless them!).
Women are not guiltless in the gender wars. Paris Hilton is just one celeb who makes women seem like shoe-fetishest, pathetic, naive bimbos. With ulterior motives. And no IQ. And I will stand up for those among us who are sincere, intelligent and fun; I know I am not speaking for myself when I say that not all women are bitchy, power-tripping conniving females. We love shopping because we were historically gatherers- we like collecting pretty things. In the same way that men are hunters- they like chasing and concquering pretty things. But these are very rough generalisations at best. And at worst, they are a great exuse for both genders to stop looking at each other with wonder and respect.
Nic, I have to agree- it's not all men who are shallow, sex-obsessed, beer guzzling, sports fanatics. But, in the way that stereotypes and generalisations are formed, there are a few (I have met some personally, unfortunately) and they have given males a bit of a rep. Added to this is the fact that men celebrate each other's maleness- so you may give your buddy a pat on the back ("you old dog, you!") when he has scored three girls in one night, and tells you about it in between beer burps. Women are wired a little differently, so we see that as encouraging behaviour that objectifies and undermines us. And it also scares the crap out of us- we hope to never be the subject of these discussions (at least, that is true for self-respecting women).
I will admit, there are some truly wonderful men out there- intelligent, funny, with integrity and style (God bless them!).
Women are not guiltless in the gender wars. Paris Hilton is just one celeb who makes women seem like shoe-fetishest, pathetic, naive bimbos. With ulterior motives. And no IQ. And I will stand up for those among us who are sincere, intelligent and fun; I know I am not speaking for myself when I say that not all women are bitchy, power-tripping conniving females. We love shopping because we were historically gatherers- we like collecting pretty things. In the same way that men are hunters- they like chasing and concquering pretty things. But these are very rough generalisations at best. And at worst, they are a great exuse for both genders to stop looking at each other with wonder and respect.
That was pure brilliance, I agree with most everything that you have said. However, I once again feel like you, as a woman, are saying that only men get pats on the back when they score 3 girls a night, I know many girls who's main aim is to come right and then get upset when guys call her a slapper. Its a once again that whole idea that girls can sexually stereotype guys but not vice versa cause then we're mean and dogs.
Ann, what is this sisterhood you speak of?
very interesting comment directed at u on Mich's blog... would love to here ur response.
Um, are you reffering to "Not Over"?
If so, I dont particularly know how to respond... guess ill just have to wait and see really!! Jen, why dont you have a blog?
If so, I dont particularly know how to respond... guess ill just have to wait and see really!! Jen, why dont you have a blog?
This is such a tiresome argument, and one that has gone back and forth for so long (in general, not just on your blog nic), dont even get me started on the 'people should just 'get over apartheid' comment made by Jaym above (makes my blood boil!!!) It just seems to me that it becomes a 'poor me' pity party for both men and women trying to deffend their sex to the death. I agree with fulvia that this entire argument is based on a bunch of selective generalisations that boil down to mini skirts and macho men...it really just isnt that simple and people just tend to run with this argument by making sweeping (over-used) statements that just lands everyone up at square one, will we ever learn?
ok ... i've read mounds of text and so I feel compelled to reply or react or something.
Gender wars will forever continue ... it just proves the point that each gender is different. Now, the point where most people get side tracked is that they think this difference is a bad thing. Sure most of the time it is.. but at the end of the day (in heterosexual relationships anyway) its these differences that attract us to each other. Plain and simple. We build, accept, subscribe to, believe in, stereotypes for a reason ... they help us "understand" the world around us. Often they are misguided. It is your role as an individual to process stereotypes the way you see fit. If your view is negative just be open-minded enough to see the other side.
lol Im not entirely sure if my pearls of wisdom relate to anything here..but it has included the words "gender", "stereotypes" and such so I think I'm safe. :p
My fingers are possessed *gasp*
Gender wars will forever continue ... it just proves the point that each gender is different. Now, the point where most people get side tracked is that they think this difference is a bad thing. Sure most of the time it is.. but at the end of the day (in heterosexual relationships anyway) its these differences that attract us to each other. Plain and simple. We build, accept, subscribe to, believe in, stereotypes for a reason ... they help us "understand" the world around us. Often they are misguided. It is your role as an individual to process stereotypes the way you see fit. If your view is negative just be open-minded enough to see the other side.
lol Im not entirely sure if my pearls of wisdom relate to anything here..but it has included the words "gender", "stereotypes" and such so I think I'm safe. :p
My fingers are possessed *gasp*
Hahahaha, Thanks desrie, Your doind a good job so far. And I understand everything that you are saying, and agree with it. My problem arises, as I have stated already, in the females ability to be able to generilse negatively about men and get away with it! thats all.
hmmm.. I never really thought about it. M has always said to get one... maybe I will start one.
Jen I think that you should, you'll definately have a reader in me!
very cool... okay I have to get out of bed now and actually go to class...
hmmmm ...lets talk about the weather shall we? The issue of gender is starting to turn into the much loved topic of politics.
I want a blog site toooooo :( looks like so much fun. Alas i shall be internet-less in a few weeks. so until then i'll live vicariously through you guys :) group hug!
I want a blog site toooooo :( looks like so much fun. Alas i shall be internet-less in a few weeks. so until then i'll live vicariously through you guys :) group hug!
hahahahah!! ok ok, fair enough. Point taken, it was good while it lasted! :)
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